Selling for cost is hurting industry

Comments

me
14 Jun 12
7:23 pm


Have booked these packages in the past as an agent through greyhound without an issue.

Scotty
14 Jun 12
8:26 pm


Well, Travel Agent, don’t fret: when the carbon tax ….ooooh, sorry, Mr Swan!!!!…..carbon “price” hits us all next month, I’m sure that GH’s pricing, like evryone else’s, will be re-adjusted accordingly. That’s when the fun will REALLY start!

Anon
14 Jun 12
8:45 pm


Here we go again with commission debates and unscrupulous practices! Let’s see if we can get up to 100 comments in record time!

Govt intervention is the only way to end this rubbish!

Anon
15 Jun 12
8:48 am


Visit http://www.oznetravel.com and then your blood will boil!

anonamouse
15 Jun 12
9:48 am


Most travel agencies will not and should not survive in a world where people have all the products and services they want at the click of a button. Why, as a backpacker would you not access prices like this online and why would you care about travel agencies and what they make out of it?

If Greyhound and other companies can cut costs for the consumer by 1) not having to pay rent and desk staff and 2) not being greedy! Good on you, the client still sells his product for the same price as they would through an agency but the consumer isn’t stung in the arse, meaning more money to share around with other areas and operators.

Unless Julia whacks an internet tax on? Which I wouldn’t put past her!

Obvious
15 Jun 12
10:07 am


With an awareness of bastardisation of products online, the operators that allow this practise to continue will find themselves losing more and more support from retail outlets. There is a rapid shift toward supporting the products that encourage a sustainable future for all. Agents and operators need each other equally, I encourage operators to take control of how their products are marketed. Now is the time to draw the line in the sand.

Anonanon
15 Jun 12
10:37 am


Get TNT to expose through the magazine to all backpackers the huge commission levels that everyone has to give the agents. I know from speaking to the tourists over the years that they are all shocked at the huge commissions.

Booking direct will not kill the Travel Agents. I still book all of my holidays through Flight centre even though I can go online and book it. They provide a safe and reliable service on the bigger ticket items which is reassuring.

Only the rogue operators who WT have encouraged to jump onboard, will suffer if the massive commissions are revealed. This sounds like a bad thing but in reallity it could be better for the industry on the whole. It would mean that instead of concentrating on sales of tours up the coast, they would make sure their accomodation and the stay was better standard. This in turn would provide word of mouth bookings for the hostels.

I think the biggest mistake and the start of the fighting was when hostels allowed commissions on dorm beds. There is no fat in a $20 bed!
Hostels reccomend hostels and Travel agents reccomend travel.

This oznetravel rubbish is the crap harvest you reap when you sow a crap crop!

WT enabled this and their oposition is exploiting it! Poor WT….

Obvious
15 Jun 12
11:51 am


It’s amusing how WT are used as scapegoats when it comes to discussion about large commissions. The fact is that every agency looks for higher comms. Its the name of the game. This thread is more about blatantly advertising core products at massively discounted prices. Greyhound prohibit the advertising of its products below rrp, a move which I welcome and encourage. With reference to them advertising discounted packages on their own site, I do not agree with it however as an agent we can book it without issue and still make our %.

The real issue that needs to be tackled is the heavy discounting sites, especially the Airlie Beach ones and the oznets. I respect that WT have not followed suit with online discounting to date, with that network surely they would dominate online before too long. I say keep the fight between the sales consultants on the street and make the operators control how their products are marketed, especially online.

Greg Cole
15 Jun 12
11:59 am


Consumers want and expect deals. Especially on simple transactions like bus tickets where agents add little or no value. And I really don’t believe for a second that customers are shocked if told about high commissions. Any I’ve met don’t give a toss as long as they get a deal. Of course the end result is a slow decline in quality and that slow decline began about circa 2007, and this is what customers really care about. Sadly the ignorant self-serving participants who bled the industry dry over these years don’t care about quality. That ship has sailed.

Anonanon
15 Jun 12
12:10 pm


@Greg Cole. Customers ARE shocked at the huge commissions. We deal with mainly the British backpacker and they all say that this couldn’t happen in the UK.

Where the big commissions comes into play is when an inferior product is offered simply because of the high commission. This is what needs to be exposed. WT are the biggest protagonists of this type of selling. Oznet have just taken it a stage further.

Everyone wants a deal yes, but that means direct bookings would be the easiest option. How can this be good for the industry?

Get agents, big and small to actually give a shit as to the points of difference again with the products and this will be the start of redressing the balance. The ammount of agents who allow us time to explain our products, country wide, can be counted on one hand! Back to basics!

anonamouse
15 Jun 12
12:22 pm


While speaking to one of the senior aussie staff of a mainstream travel agency at Mingle, one of his employees overheard the conversation on commissions and said he often puts on an extra $200 on packages so he receives more commission.

How is this allowed in such a massive international company? If that client then found a price elsewhere for cheaper, why would they ever go back to this particular brand or indeed others?

“Successful people are always looking for opportunities to help others. Unsuccessful people are always asking, ‘What’s in it for me?’”

Greg Cole
15 Jun 12
8:00 pm


@Anonanon, Yes I’m sure commissions are a hot topic around the pool, or over a few beers, or maybe even at a full moon party. Shocked they must surely be. They’d be even more shocked if they bought their bus tickets or activities from one of many UK based travel agents who specialise in Australia. Agents who have a sign on the door that says “offering minus 25% – F-off; offering plus 25% – yes, we can talk.

“Couldn’t happen in the UK” is an assumption from travellers who simply wouldn’t know. “Does happen in the UK” is a fact from me who’s seen it first hand.

Scotty
16 Jun 12
8:10 am


Well, I was a member of the TTNQ panel that sat down to discuss major issues with new Qld Tourism Minister, Jan Stuckey, as a prelude to the Destination Q forum and the “Big C” was raised with the Minister by the TV reporters before we`d even started chatting!!!!

This WILL BE examined at the forum.

Once again, operators can expect a 10-20% increase in anything carbon-’price’ related as of July 1st: to remain viable businesses, we will ALL have to go nuclear or adjust our pricing upward. Failure to pass on these costs to the consumer/client/traveller will result in businesses failing ever more commonly.

For those operators who may be feeling smug over their solar power, etc., your toilet paper comes by ship, then truck or rail and, thus, WILL attract new costs due to Carbon Pricing.

Stuff`s going to go up next month, folks: Australia the expensive will become Australia the even MORE expensive. Better sharpen up your service levels and give the place/boat/bus a lick of paint to make it look worth it!

Greg Cole
16 Jun 12
11:16 am


@Scotty, if you make party political posts for the LNP you should declare so. At least it sounds like a page from Abbotts morning brief. Campbell Newman is axing tens of thousands of public sector jobs anyway without much thought for the consequences – he’s done so before. Probably be blamed on the carbon pricing. This will effect tourism; any views on that?

Carbon pricing is coming. I’d rather hear what the Coalition would do or if the noise they make is just opposition chatter looking for a column in the paper or space in forums.

Anon
16 Jun 12
2:36 pm


Oznet has its place. It’s shown me the amount of com I should have been getting through WT but wasn’t allowed! Also it’s pulling customers into Australia who wouldn’t come over otherwise. So us booking agents miss the odd sale due to direct bookings but at least they are looking at pulling a market back to Australia. It’s my job to then convince them to book with me. Any attempt is better than no attempt.

Scotty
17 Jun 12
9:49 am


Geese, Greg, for a long time now you have made a lot of sense, why the change to looney tunes now?

The 10-20% increase is a figure supplied to me by the manager of a large chain hostel manager who has been discussing what charges he can expect come July, Greg. This is reality for those of us with skin in the game(do YOU still have skin in there,somewhere???)

As for public service jobs going in QLD, what do you expect, Greg? There are over 400,000, last I heard,for a State with a population of under 5 million!!!! Too many unproductive chiefs,not enough wealth-creating indians. QED,cuts to the public service are a reality. Try to imagine what a pile of $100 bills to the value of $600,000 looks like-QLD is paying that in interest every hour to service our $85 billion plus debt. Fact.

It may sound like pure politics to you, Greg, but we have seen our profitability head South at an ever increasing rate due to the ALP holding power in this state for 18 of the last 20 years due to vast increases in cost dropped on us from a great height in the form of bureaucratic excess. This is what drives me into a frenzy,not some idealogical bent.

I am very encouraged by the fact the new LNP gov up here is interested in our views on shaping Qlds tourism direction and pleased to be able to represent Mission Beach and Cairns region at Destibation Q. Bloody good start to be listened to by those responsible for policy for a change. Newman will be there & I look forward to having his ear, as well.

It is about time that our industry leaders stopped obsequiously begging the pollies pardon and kowtowing to those whose policies directly affect our livelihoods and hoist our colours up the flag & fight for them!

Btw, Greg, I’m not employed or advised by the LNP but am going to have a crack at a seat next year BECAUSE I care about what I consider to be the best and most sustainable industry Australia has or ever will have :TOURISM. I am going to fight for better representation for it at State & national level,because,along with our flourishing but poorly managed mining industry and under-resourced primary produce industry, our future as a nation in these trying times depends on optimal realization of these areas.

Along with that large-chain hostel manager,I & every other business owner that uses power,diesel,gas,etc,await yet another ridiculous idealogical impost on the cost of
doing businesscome July. THAT is reality, Greg Cole (who was championing small businesses not long ago).

Feel free with to respond with YOUR GCole solution for how an LNP gov answers to such a Federal tax in a broke State parliament.

Scotty
17 Jun 12
11:07 am


As an aside, the only countries that have introduced a carbon tax/price either have their own nuclear power plants or access to cheap energy from nuclear-fired neighbours, apart from Ireland, Holland & Puerto Rico. No country of similar dimensions, power source and reliance on coal exports has a carbon price, much less at such a high rate, and, in the present fragile global economy, none are contemplating one.

And that is my research, not anyone else’s, Greg.

Greg Cole
18 Jun 12
8:23 am


@Scotty, I was fairly certain I read a while back you were having a go at politics. You’re on the right track here I think. But if you want to make a difference instead of just a lot of look-at-me noise then be different. Don’t join the bandwagon of criticism and vitriol that the state and country is oh so tired of hearing from the mouths of politicians. And my comment on this site doesn’t instantly cancel me out as a supporter of small business. Especially as I am a small business.

I for one am glad its you making a stand in the north because I know you can stand and speak without mincing your words, people listen to you, and you occasionally listen to people before firing back.

Good luck.

Scotty
18 Jun 12
10:53 am


While I thank you for your considered support, you are still not accepting the reality of the situation. However,you aren’t alone there.

The fact remains, this whole country, lead by what was unarguably THE tourism state (QLD) has allowed a minority idealogical view to slam our way of life. It has never been so tough to do business nor feel secure as an employee in Oz than this last 5 years, not since the Depression.

It is to our everlasting shame as an industry that we did not unite and push harder for recognition as a huge employer and tax paying pillar of our country’s wealth in the heady days after the Sydney Olympics, when we missed the massive opportunity to leverage off this world-stopping event and, I believe, lost focus, especially when it came to political support.

Along with our luck in the timing of the resources boom, there has been disastrous mis-management of the benefits that should be flowing from this bright spot in an otherwise depressing world view. It has not only killed tourism and manufacturing and primary industries through the high dollar but failed to trickle through to those industries it is damaging.

In our once great state of Queensland, we are fortunate to have a Tourism Minister with a background in tourism & a passion for it, supported by a Premier who has recognized our industry as one of the four pillars of the state economy. The Destination Q forum is the first of such since 1985, Greg: I don’t call spruiking these facts as “look at moi” attention seeking at all, and, far from being pessimistic about everything, I’m rapt that we operators have the opportunity to contribute to better policy from this point on.

However, you are still avoiding your take on the Carbon Price (and I take the piss out of the fact they no longer say ‘carbon’ and ‘tax’ in the same sentence by order of the focus group honchos, as if ‘price’ will make us all feel better about a new TAX!) and how, exactly we operators can cope with this impost as well as huge insurance cover price rises, commission, lower volume and even more rubbish rules & regulations.

Do us all a favour out here in BTN land & have a chat with tour boat owners, accom providers, backpacker bar owners and bus tours, gather their thoughts, and get back to us. I already have and they echo my thread.

Andonandonandonandon
19 Jun 12
6:36 pm


@ A Travel Agent…I agree, agents are now under fire from all sides….Suppliers who are cutting them out of their direct booking deals; from Groupon type sites and their suppliers who halve the prices of their product; from the crazy slashed internet prices; and from persistent efforts by BTN posters to discredit agents as rogue, greedy, unfit and unqualified to sell travel.

Travel agencies are actually legitimate businesses driven by consumer demand and, even with the competition from the internet and the factors above, are mostly still buzzing with activity and repeat customers. So the BTN posters who discredit agents have not got rid of agents yet…..So how about you guys exit this neg-rave ditch the mud-slinging, and start looking to consultation, communication and compromise?

We are not going to go Soviet with prices fixed by govt; and our young customers are not going to trade their i-phones for a Lonely Planet or head back to the good ole days….so we best all get real and deal with what is.

The police don’t intervene in “domestics”…and the govt wont intervene here on commissions. Instead they send them to Relate to talk. So maybe it’s time for suppliers to pick up the phone, call the agents and stark talking, instead of blamestorming and grabbing the anonymous megaphone on BTN which they use to hit agents over the head with it to get their point across.

Thomas Wheeler
20 Jun 12
12:11 pm


@andonandon It’s not all agents and I dont think anyone has stated that. You may be one of many agents that play by the rules and offer both consumer and client a good product. The few who are not playing by the rules and implementing some of the shocking practices as stated in the ”Treating customers like this is unAustralian” post a few months back are ruining it for others.

The fact of the matter is these things do go on and it’s damaging to all agents and Australia as a destination!

”So how about you guys exit this neg-rave ditch the mud-slinging, and start looking to consultation, communication and compromise?” I’ve heard of a few clients to you agents picking up the phone, discussing their situation, and negotiating a lower commission to find their product is not being sold later down the line. Why wouldn’t that client go and access an online booking system or Greyhound -they pay the same/ or less commission and the consumer gets it cheaper! WIN WIN!

I know there has to be a happy medium for both operator and agent but currently (in most cases) there just isn’t. I think it’s time to remember you need product to sell and you need to make it sustainable for operators. If you can discount below the direct booking price of an operator to sweeten a deal, why are you selling it that high in the first place?

Why is there no TQUAL mark equivalent for agencies? Why is there not an agency association to split the weak from the chaff? There are too many agents and not enough consumers to go around. Why not make it easier for backpackers to trust accredited agents instead of any old Tom Dick and Harry?

It’s not just operators complaining on BTN about agents – many agents themselves are sticking their neck out to try and give a better view of agencies and their practices – not just moaning because all of a sudden, it’s themselves doing it hard, not just the operators.

Scotty
20 Jun 12
1:51 pm


@andonandon, I don`t believe the anon posters on here are all slamming tour agents and, like you, they have their reasons for speaking anonymously. As for me, I have always preferred to stand behind my statements, as I don`t pretend to be anyone other than who I am: a passionate supporter of this industry.

As I have discussed on this forum`s threads ad infinitum, the last 12 years of trade in my sector (backpacker accom) has been fraught, in comparison with ‘the good old days”. First, the GST arrived and,such was our fear of being jumped on by bureacrats for trying to pass it on incorrectly,many of us didn`t adjust our prices enough to eliminate its affects on our bottom line.

Then, there was the Childers Backpacker fire in 2000 which sent our insurance premiums through the roof (between 300-400%…) and added the expense of purchasing & maintaining Gov regulated fire detection systems,no matter how large or what style of hostel one owned (ours cost $14,000 & a couple of grand to maintain per year)

Next, we saw the rise of the agents and their office desk systems;this encouraged every hostel to become a tour agent,not only allowing them to take higher commission than before from tour companies but encouraging them to sting other hostels on what were previously ‘courtesy’ FOC bookings…minimum was usually 15% but 25% was common(.

Add ever-increasing associated costs imposed by Councils and Government bodies and an increase in tourism salaries and tradies wages as the mining industry started to push wage expectations ever higher, and you`ll see our industry weathered that alright, as well.

Then, along comes the GFC and our dollar shoots skyward whilst our visitor numbers tank. Van companies proliferate and increase their fleet size as the cost of staying in a dorm can no longer compete with free camping.

Now, 5 years into this global economic crisis,has there been any effort by tour agents to think about the health of the hostel industry, take account of limited volume and the massive decline in net profits by ameliorating their rate of commission? Have they formed a body/association of agents to self-regulate their sector? Is there enough goodwill between the various tour agent companies to enable them to work on a code of practice, etc?

Unlike hostels, travel agents have been consolidating their position in the market,even expanding,over the same period of time where hostels and tour companies have been closing. Yes, we`ve ALL been “doing it tough” but we operators have been suffering the most and the longest, whilst struggling to promote and improve our businesses: how much of a contribution to tourism dialogue have the agents made, until forced to the table only over the last 12 months?

It`s a bit rich for agents, who have been ‘wagging the dog” of tourism for the past 7 years,to suddenly declare solidarity with the rest of our sector without any recent proof of involvement in tradeshows and tourism bodies,of basically “fighting in the trenches” with the rest of us.

Agents should not take a holier-than-thou position on communication: it should always have been a two-way street, folks.Real Estate agents bug the HELL out of the vendor when representing a property,as do car salesman and most reps:why does it now appear that product should have been checking if the agents were happy, not vice versa???

When I hear that agents are clamouring to attend the next Brainstorming function is when I`ll believe they are sincere about being a genuine, fully-committed and vital part of this industry.

Tony Laurent
20 Jun 12
10:18 pm


Scotty – you’ve got my vote by the way, even if you stood as an ‘Independent’ -
I have to once again draw your attention to your persistent, loose and sometimes damming reference to the word ‘agents’.

WE do have a ‘TQUAL mark or equivalent’. It’s called a Travel Agent’s License.

May I suggest that you research the facts, between your energetic and passionate postings (the good Greg Cole by the way couldn’t be running a small business, how could he ever have that much time to post a comment on every single BTN subject…) then seriously, you’d realise just how hard it is to get and maintain a REAL one – valid trust accounts, prompt operator payments etc.

Those of us who have fully supported all aspects of tourism for so long know that you simply can’t be half arsed in this industry, you are either fully committed or you’re not.

Unfortunately in the current climate, some ‘tour desks’, ‘booking agents’ and the franchise type ‘lurkers’, including the recent proliferation of WT on-line ‘agents’ can (generally) be a very poor reflection on our industry, and are often motivated simply by greed or desperation – or both (cash flow)

I repeat, if your business is genuine about commission selling of tourism products and you sincerely appreciate a healthy relationship with quality operators and satisfied visitors, show your commitment and get a real license. That’s to say, commit to the standards! Don’t just hide behind some franchise ‘global’ benediction.

You may not be driving around in an expensive car for the near future but, if we all genuinely work together to realistically help find common ground instead of emotionally blaming each other for the woes of tourism in this country, then we might just be able to weather the storm, together.

By the way the new Qld Tourism Minister’s statement about ‘cutting the red tape’ IMO, will only exasperate the problem. No one wants more red tape that’s for sure, but let’s not throw out the baby with the bath water. It’s not the commissions that are the problem, it’s the greedy, commission driven and often desperate ‘agents’ who are dragging down a time-honored, workable and harmonious relationship.

Tony Laurent, airliebeach.com

ps: please, all, in the interests of honest and open dialogue, don’t just hide behind anonymous postings. This subject concerns us each and everyone of us, can’t we just simply pull together and work together for the betterment of this wonderful industry.

Scotty
21 Jun 12
11:32 am


@Tony- thanks for the political support: you might have to move to vote for me, though, dammit!

I agree, the fact that there are Agents and then there are agents is a massive factor, no doubt, but this is, after all, an (A)agent-fomented revolution, not one that was started by us hostel owners. Simple fact is that local tour bookings by non-authorized agents, such as motel/resort/hostel receptions, were the norm in Queensland (and elsewhere) since tourism`s very beginnings back in the 60`s.

It has only been the rise in commissions (yes, I know, offered BY TOUR OPERATORS in the first place to guarantee their product`s primacy) that opened the door to the proliferation of unlicensed, stand-alone tour shops. This opened the door to ‘discount’ packages and leads us to where we now find ourselves.

I fully support your PS: this is what should have happened YEARS ago, when the costs of business,especially in Queensland, first started their meteoric rise.

I also believe the new Queensland LNP Tourism Minister and her government REALLY want to make doing business easier: the briefing notes for the upcoming Destination Q forum have highlighted the importance of freeing-up tourism development,which has been stagnant since the later half of the 90`s (which coincides with when the bureacracy were first let lose upon our sector,strangely enough…)

I promise you that I will be channeling the frustration I have experienced over the last 17 years into affirmative steps that our Government can (and MUST) take if it wants to double Queensland`s overnight visitor expenditure to $30 billion by 2020. I reckon that Tony and other agents should look to some form of association as soon as possible,regardless of whether the ALP-actioned ‘commission report’ is supported by the new Minister or not.

I`ll echo recently-deceased public figure, Rodney King, upon viewing the ferocious riots that followed his brutal arrest: “Can`t we all get along?”

Pertinent question, methinks.

Greg Cole
21 Jun 12
3:58 pm


@Tony, I found TA licenses quite easy to manage. But to your point of my time: I spend my days putting systems and operations into businesses where none previously existed. Or rather the owners thought they existed, but really they were just chasing their tails and just needed a fresh set of eyes.

So it would be remiss of me to project an image of being anything but a bum who has little else to do than desperately scan the news looking for a home for comments by GC. However, I do have great empathy and admiration for small business operators such as yourself, and agree with many of your points except one: what’s the connection between a TA license and quality as it relates to TQUAL, which itself is self-regulated? Neither TQUAL nor a TA license have any sort of muscle to beef up quality.

But back to being a bum: I’ve had a hard day on the ski-slopes of Coronet Peak near magnificent Queenstown. I’ve been here a week and at days end I literally sprint to my laptop to view the latest on BTN; alas, its still mainly Scotty and anons keeping the conversations going. So I add my bit to try and keep things going as well because, well, that’s kind of the point of forums. I make time to read it and add to it. I’m sure Scotty does as well and he’d have far less time than I being the active proprietor of a successful hostel.

And on Queenstown: makes me proud to be a Kiwi. Its a slick well run machine full of energy and drive to do better and better. From a quality perspective we in Oz could do well to spend time here or listen to those who do.

Scotty
21 Jun 12
5:25 pm


Queenstown knows what its business is and goes about it: many destinations over this side of the ditch don`t and, thus, dilute the message.

As for being busy, Greg, far from it: this year is very S-L-O-W so far this season despite mainly fine, sunny weather (they aint in Sydney, they aint in Byron & they aint in Southern Queensland-where are the backpacker hordes, Darwin???), and my comments on here about the big issues affecting us in backpacking mean only the most dedicated agents send `em my way…

I`m in Cairns, having a crack at all sorts of things with my spare time, while Vixta and Mel take care of business (fear not,I`ll be bloody busy soon enough and the BTN threads will grow cobwebs in my absence…touse bastids`ll be BEGGING ME for comments.)

I`m currently gaining my heavy vehicle license so I can dwive big twucks & coaches,as well as girding my loins for Destination Q. I see this next 2 years as make-or-break time in Queensland, if not the whole nation,and I want to be a part of any change for the better.

If, instead, it gets worser-rah, look out, Sandgropers!!! FI-FO, FI-FO, it`s off to Perth I go!

Greg Cole
22 Jun 12
3:32 pm


On the face of it the backpacker hordes are all gainfully employed here in Queenstown: its like the United Nations here.

Tony Brown
24 Jun 12
4:38 pm


Being an operator and also having an agency means I have involvement with T-QUAL, TCF, ECO, and WCBIA. TCF is a compensation fund set up to protect customers from agents that do a runner with their money. Annually your trust account is audited.

However T-QUAL has a relationship with ECO, and to get your ECO accreditation requires substantial work and has a strong audit program too. The ECO program requires operators to present a management and operational plan, business ethics, responsible marketing, customer satisfaction, enviroment management, interpretation and education, contribution to conservation, working with local communities, emissions calculations, and cultural respect and sensitivity. These are some of the plans we have to set up as manuals for our staff and customers. All in all over 2100 pages, and lots of man hours collating.

Over the course of many years we have had problems with an agency group that misrepresents our product. There is very little I can do to combat this, so yes a code of conduct which has a part of it based on honesty in selling/marketing would be a massive leap forward.

There has been much said about commissions, the real problem of commissions is that they artificially prop up businesses that would in normal circumstances fall over. They artificially get more customers because an agent profits by selling that product. The operator has less yield but has a better occupancy. This in turn artificially creates greater supply over demand.

So if there was a code of conduct for agents that had teeth, and the practice of profiteering over customers wants was blunted. Then the law of the jungle would come back in play and supply would be closer to demand, yields are better as are occupancy. Money goes back into product, customer satisfaction rises.
…………….and we are all one big happy family……maybe!

Scotty
25 Jun 12
10:44 am


That was exactly my point in a recent discussion with a friend who is a tour agent, Tony: high commissions paid by crap product sees them clinging to life when they should be goneski! By propping them up, they not only upset the law of the jungle but guarantee many of our visitors sub-prime experiences. Only the agents themselves can put a stop to this, we can’t do a thing!

John Smith
27 Jun 12
2:31 pm


To the “travel agent” who is frustrated with companies who sell travel deals at rock bottom prices…

There can only be two possibilities;-

(a) you are not an Agent of Greyhound

(b) you are incompetent – because if you were an Agent, then surely you would know that you are able to sell the exact same East Coast Package at the exact same price

Do everyone a favor and please get your facts straight first before you start posting nonsense.

So, my question to you is; which one are you…(a) or (b)?

A prompt response would be appreciated, thank you.

anonymous agent
29 Jun 12
4:19 pm


John, thanks for that pal, I can be A-Z for you sweetheart.

You somehow missed the point..

So what are you/ travel agent police?? goose!!

John Smith
20 Jul 12
3:10 pm


Anonymous agent – Sorry, I forgot to include options (c) – clueless and (d) – edited by BTN. Take your pick sweetheart..

I haven’t missed anything, because you haven’t actually made any valid points yet.

Let me put it to you in a much simpler way (I use this technique on my 4 year old nephew from time to time).

Here are the facts;-

Greyhound is an Operator.

You are an Agent.

You are desperate, and Greyhound is your only way to get customers through your door and generate revenue. In other words – you need to sell Greyhound so that you can pay for your weekly visits to Jenny Craig.

So, stop acting LIKE A BOSS, and start appreciating whatever Greyhound throws at you like the rest of us. Kapish?

Anon453
27 Jul 12
12:43 pm


Appears to be matching other online agents.

Anon
27 Jul 12
2:23 pm


But it’s website travel

Tony Laurent
1 Aug 12
7:24 pm


This is exactly the type of subterfuge that I have been referring to.
“We are the Whitsundays Sailing Specialists!” my arse. Some temp backpacker working for a franchise lurker in Melbourne or worse is now a Whitsundays sailing expert?

Tony Laurent, airliebeach.com

Anon
2 Aug 12
7:22 am


Like oznettravel live chat, can see that being very effective, few staff online and they helped adjust products rates pretty quick, have had a trickle of bookings and right now every little helps

Anon
2 Aug 12
6:53 pm


@Tony. What constitutes a Whitsunday Sailing Specialist? Your sites blatantly use a price point to offer potential customers their Whitsunday experience. You show complete disregard for operators wishes when it comes down to representing their products at their retail prices. Having mystery shopped your “specialist staff”, you use quality products as a lead in and off sell to operators that are renowned to offer HUGE commissions. I respect your time and effort in the industry however your staff are specialists in selling which products make them the most commission. Your actions are hurting the operators. Plain and simple.

Anon
3 Aug 12
6:55 am


@ Anon, couldn’t agree with you more, Tony may do some good things in the industry (personally I don’t know what they are) and wins a few awards. BUT, the cold hard fact is, he discounts Whitsunday sailing vessels against repeated requests from boat owners for him to stop, and clearly uses them as bait selling to push volume onto the boats he gets the highest commission on. Then when boat owners try and do something about the way he misrepresents our products, he gets abusive and threatens legal action. This is not new behavior, he has been doing this for years, that is why he has lost his manifesting contracts.

Anon
3 Aug 12
7:23 am


I too looked at Tony’s website and noticed that the WCBIA banner is being used to give visitors the impression that all of the boats are all WCBIA vessels. The operators who pay membership fees and have to keep their vessels at a higher standard should be very unhappy that their work and cost is being exploited.
If anon is correct, then you are only lining your pockets at the expense of operators who genuinely are trying to keep high standards and honesty in advertising. This does not make you a specialist, it makes you a part of what is very wrong in the adventure tourism industry. Agents being paid massive commissions, unbeknown to their customers, placing them on product best for the agents bottom line rather than what is right for the customer.

Scotty
3 Aug 12
9:41 am


Well,much as I value freedom of speech,I would prefer to see names ,not anons, having a crack on this forum.

I`m no angel but at least stand behind my comments and opinions,as does Greg Cole ,Paul Fanning and Tony Laurent,et al.

I have suggested in the past that agents need to form their own association and conduct round-table discussions on subjects like that which is raised in the sniping above: I don`t think anonamous sledging will solve anything but self-regulation might then put in place a mechanism that will raise standards in the selling of tours and allow for de-registering those who break the rules.

The current agent vs agent situation reminds me of the early 90`s punch-ups at bus stops at the East coast hot-spots (Hervey Bay, Airlie Beach, Cairns,etc) involving hostel courtesy coach drivers (remember that,anyone???) fighting over backpackers as they got off the Deluxe/Sunliners/Pioneers. This ugly situation was sorted out ,internally and with the assistance of local Councils, with strict rules on bus-stop etiquette that remain today.

Time for the tour agents to consider getting together and doing the same.

Tony Laurent
3 Aug 12
12:11 pm


So, could the real anon please step out of the closet for a change.

Seriously, can’t you honourable, defenders of our local sailing industry at least have the balls to come out and discuss the matter in a helpful and constructive manner.

Or do we suspect that most of you are being manipulated by higher vested interests?

Firstly as far as ‘Whitsundays Sailing Specialists’ go, at AB.com we ensure that all of our staff have worked in the local fleet, some for many years, none of them are on sales commissions. We’re simply lucky enough to have quality people, dedicated to their standards. And if that’s no enough, the actual poor bugger who signs their cheques week in week out – with over 50 Atlantic crossings under his belt – has got some idea about boats… Sorry, but this is pertinent to the subject. I could go on.

AirlieBeach.com just won the Telstra Best Small Business in Queensland Award, and believe me that’s not just like some little nod and a wink tourism award. We had to jump through some huge hoops and demonstrate best practices at all levels.

We reluctlantly entered the awards after being nominated by a company down south. I say reluctantly because fankly we’re just too busy at the moment simply trying to pay the staff and rent, like everybody else.

In any other business, the Telstra Award would be seen as a sign of encouragement to the industry that even a little hole-in-the-wall local outfit such as ours can get there, with plenty of hard work and dedication to the industry.

You with me so far? You don’t need unholy alliaces or sleeping with the devil to get on in this industry. Just do the right thing and focus on your authenticity and customer satisfaction.

So while I shouldn’t try to dignify the comments of the closet dwellers above, you would all probably do better to worry about trying to improve your own businesses instead of throwing rocks.

As far as discounting goes, I signaled long ago that if you all continued to drop your collective pants to the various francaise outfits you would soon find yourselves painted into a corner.

Unlike some of the web lurkers, we know what we’re talking about and I would rather loose a sale than put someone on an inferior trip just for a higher commission. And believe me I’m not talking about the ridiculoius 50% commissions that some of you poor operators manage to folk over to the franchise outfits.

Our commissions are ofter less than half of that. And more importantly I pay my bills on time, every time!

If you people are so short sighted to now find yourselves in the proverbial corner, don’t go blaming anyone but yourselves. Maybe you shouldn’t be in the tourism and boating industry to start with.

Tony Laurent, AirlieBeach.com

Anon
3 Aug 12
2:58 pm


@scotty
You have no idea how much I wish we could reveal our name. As mentioned earlier we can’t afford the cost of legal bills which we are being threatened with. Most of us don’t even want our boats listed on any of his websites but he sends legal letters when we try and have a say. 
@ Tony, As for the commissions we have to pay, sure they are not 50%, but that is because you discount the RRP and/or the boats are in stand by rates. If you didn’t discount the RRP then the commission would well exceed 50%. I am not calling names or making pointless comments here. I am telling the truth, we are afraid as we are losing out of town business. And we are losing out on forward bookings at better yields than the rates we get from you. International Agents are not happy and this is business suicide. Tony, your business is built on stand by rates which are in fact unsustainable!!period!!

Scotty
3 Aug 12
5:06 pm


Anon, I understand the need for anonymity for those with product (I admit, my stand on agents DOES cost me bookings from some, there is no doubt).

However, it is often agents that are getting into each other, on here and on the streets. Agents have admitted to me that they spy on each other and that there is plenty of dirty dealing going on.

With the fading of the threat of anything official from the Gov in the way of attempted heavy handed regulating of agents from outside the industry, my plea for some sort of agent organisation remains just as relevant.

You know who you are, I`ve spoken to you about this. If you don`t get organized, you will continue harming the industry and may,still, get unwanted attention from the bureaucracy in the future.

Do it, for everyone`s sake.

Tony Laurent
3 Aug 12
7:07 pm


Ok Anon #1, I’ll try again.

By the way, please don’t do the ‘wounded plover’ thing. Your comment that you feel ‘threatened’ is Disneyland. In 20 years of proudly representing the Whitsundays Sailing industry, we have never, ever had any inclination to send a ‘legal’ letter to any operator, and thank God for that. If you dispute that then please show one to prove me wrong.

Honestly, if you feel that we at AB.com are the sole cause of your predicament, please put you hand up. I respectfully extend mine. Contact me and let’s just sit down and discuss the problem. For me, it’s perfectly clear where that’s coming from. We can only try to work with all sectors of the industry to help find a solution.

TL

illuminati
3 Sep 12
3:11 pm


everyone is doing it http://bacpac.com.au/2-days2-nights-195/

Anon
3 Sep 12
9:47 pm


Hi James S.
You have just highlighted the short sighted ignorant attitude of online discounters. “they do it so I will too”. You and your partners have attempted to bastidise ALL products. Just not sure how many Indians are booking through your oznet site.

anon
4 Oct 12
3:47 pm


@ illuminati the site you pointed out just highlights the place that our industry has got to. We have the extreme of operators using websites to sell products at no or little commission and on the other spectrum we have 40%+ commissions being given to agents to get “volume” (which then offered to the next product for more “volume”).
The problem has then been further exacerbated by the over supply of tours/accommodation from pre weak $aus. Now we have an over supply of agents who are so desperate to get sales they actively grab customers walking past shops, use all sorts of tactics to bully a sale, presumably on their “preferred” products. Which we know as their highest commissionable products.
This means we have confused customers over paying for product they probably wouldn’t have chosen if not for the hard sell, leaving our shores feeling ripped off and dissapointed by their travel. Not exactly a sustainable model.
The fact is we are perceived expensive, yet we have the most expensive agent commissions in the world!
Do we need a change? The non commission route through the web is not sustainable, but we cannot continue with massive commissions. Agents need to do a revaluation and either work with industry or industry will need to find a more sustainable model.
We really need todays back packers leaving our shores with not only great memories, but also feeling a better sense of value. Otherwise our future is going to be bloody bleak.

Pete Haselhurst
11 Oct 12
3:50 am


Dear Travel Agent,

You are dumb…

Firstly, you should consider changing industries because if this is your biggest worry, then you will be worried for your entire working life in this industry. Travel agents and websites will always discount their packages and if you can’t compete with Greyhound on price, then don’t compete on price. Business is not ALL about price.

To give you a very real example…

I run an event on a Tuesday night in Kings Cross and charge $10 per person to enter my event and hundreds of people pay to enter….what’s my point…Kings Cross has a number of bars open at the same time, the same place, cheaper drinks and they don’t charge entry BUT their venues are empty! We focus on product and delivering an experience. You need to stop focusing on price and focus on any number of key selling points that will help you convert sales.

Backpackers don’t want cheap, they want value for money and they will pay for a good product if you SELL IT and DELIVER IT.

Secondly, Greyhound will be making money from the customer. I’m 99.9% certain that Greyhound sell far more packages than what you do, therefore they deserve and will be on a higher commission. The commission level is signed off by the operator (not the seller) and if the operator has signed a higher commission they are fully entitled to do so and no silly post will ever change that.

Thirdly, get used to online prices being cheaper than in store prices – it makes total sense, very few overheads, saving is passed onto the customer, basic business. I strongly suggest you work on your personal service, knowledge of products and understanding of what the customer wants (the majority of generic packages only suit the small minority of customers – use this to your advantage) because that will grow your business.

Fourthly, stop looking for excuses and reasons to not sell, stop wasting your time trying to solve other travel companies commission levels – you will never change it, stop saying the industry in on death row, I agree that times may not be a lucrative as in previous years but you need to get over it and move with the times! Companies in our industry are making money and providing a great service and/or product…why…because they are innovative, creative and market leaders (and they don’t waste their time posting worthless posts on a topic that they have NO control ober) I strongly suggest you start working on your products, your key suppliers, your service and your value for money. Focus on increasing your commission rates, if that is what you think you require to close sales, set KPI’s with your suppliers and I can assure you they WILL look after you, by selling very little or complaining about online prices will not put you in a stronger business position to compete in the current market.

Sydney’s smallest independent travel agent had the highest commission levels in Australia, why? Because the manager knows how to sell and what to sell! (The agent does not sell the cheapest products either and is located in one of the most competitive strips in Sydney.

I wish you the very very best in what you’re doing but please get motivated, be creative and innovated…it would be great to see a post from you in the future on how to combat other agents selling for cost price…now that is an exciting post topic. I should ask my friend who manages the smallest independent travel agent to post on that topic but that would be too easy.

Thanks

Mick Vazquez
11 Oct 12
7:16 pm


Operators that are selling travel as well, are able to do better packages the street front retail stores. Everyone discounts some business models allow more discounts due to minimal overheads or packaging with their own products. These stories go on and on, its not going to change, innovate and get creative and work out how you can play the game and compete.

Jeff J
14 Dec 12
10:26 pm


Is there any truth to the story/rumour this week in regards to Nomads taking over Oz Experience in the new year?

Alex Croall
18 Dec 12
12:39 am


What Pete H said

Craig Richards
18 Dec 12
11:35 pm


Jeff J that is BS spread by operators that feel they got the cold shoulder in recent timetable changes. Oz Experience and Greyhound have no exclusive commercial agreement with Nomads or MAD travel.

Greyhound will be briefing current drivers and staff on the Oz Experience future or lack thereof later this week.

Greg Cole
19 Dec 12
4:21 pm


To all those who have called me and are intending to. I have no idea what is happening with Oz Experience. But if it was for sale I’d give you $1.00 for it and in 4 years I’d add six zeros to that.

Scort
2 Jan 13
4:02 pm


Oz Experience is dead in the water . No numbers on buses and passengers complaining about poor service (not doing advertised stops) and a driver culture of excessive drinking and sleazy behavior, drivers complaining about sleeping conditions, , drivers infighting and reporting others for trivial reasons leading to suspensions/dismissals and a shortage of drivers.
It’s cheaper to do a Greyhound on the same route. A Greyhound driver was telling us last week they leave Sydney and Cairns around the same time as the Oz Experience and the skinny dog is full of backpackers and Oz Experience is lucky to be loading five people yet advertise meeting a bus load of like minded travelers.
Talking to fellow hostel workers down the coast Oz Experience is losing a lot of respect from independents due to their recent move to everything Nomads.
Comments like this one on social media don’t help a company at all
“some advice for anyone looking to book with oz experience, DON’T!!! its not worth the money and they (or the companies they use) mess you about”

GC you’d be wanting change from your $1 mate.
G Adventure will be the final nail in the Oz Ex coffin.

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