Wayoutback enter the Top End market

Comments

Scotty
24 May 12
4:40 pm


Hmmmmmmmmmm………

You are kidding!
24 May 12
4:42 pm


I bet TUI are happy about Greg and Ken going in direct competition to them! And Oz experience come to think of it!
This is quite possibly illegal!

Paul Fanning
24 May 12
6:08 pm


Good Luck Don! Tough market to crack, especially in current economic climate. With your existing highly regarded reputation, Kenny whispering in your ear and Greg talkin the talk in Europe, no doubt you will give it a good crack. Just forgive me for having a Deja Vu moment!

Bring it on!
24 May 12
6:50 pm


what does “consulting contract” mean? Is that a dodgy way of getting around the non-competition contract I’m sure Ken and Greg have with TUI?

Greg Cole
24 May 12
6:59 pm


Well done guys. A great team and a great product. And @youarekidding, Ken and Greg aren’t fools and Tui, well, I’ll choose my words carefully: they have – and have had – every opportunity and resources to build on great companies with great people. They chose a different path and probably still don’t know what’s going on.

anon
24 May 12
10:48 pm


don and ken + greg and alice. thats the way they all became the brady bunch – the brady bunch

anon
25 May 12
12:02 pm


Just what Kakadu needs big Don, another Tour Operator! Don’t know if I would be taking contracted advice from a pair that sold their beloved company for a squillion and do a 180 degrees about face and commence promoting Don’s 2WD Way Outback ADVENTURE Style TOURS 6 months later. Do Ken and Greg really need the money that bad?? Are they motivated to sell way outback with the same enthusiasm and passion that saw ATA get to where it is was when Greg and Ken Brady sold lol? Wasn’t Alice the maid in the Brady Bunch??

TUI and ATA are spewing.

You are kidding!
25 May 12
12:08 pm


Greg Cole. I can’t believe you still think all of the above are a great product especially the way you were rissoled by the aforementioned!

All it does is leave a bad taste in peoples mouths. You cannot sell your much loved owner operated, self built company to a Multi National, take a year off then set up in competition with your former self!

If it isn’t illegal, it certainly stinks morally! I wonder how soon before Website Travel promote it as the best thing since sliced
bread. This whole industry is corrupt and it seems that the few large players are in cahoots together still!

Whats the commission on the so called new product?

Please get a response from Tui!

wish i could think of a witty name
25 May 12
4:13 pm


haters gunna hate

Scotty
25 May 12
6:13 pm


I would have thought there would have been something written into the contract of sale about the vendors being forbidden to operate in the transport/tour industry for eternity, given the background of the buyers AND sellers…..

Funny thing is, I was told this was going to happen by Territory insiders even when the first rumours of a sale to GH/TD first emerged, so, it`s not like this has come out of the blue, but I didn`t think it would happen THIS soon!

I reckon Greg & Ken are more like a cat than a piece of buttered toast: they always end up on their feet, rather than splattered face down on a golden patch of grease.

We mere amateurs can but marvel at their skill.

Greg Cole
25 May 12
8:13 pm


The comments here regarding legal issues display nothing more than cheap shots. Some clown says I was “rissoled”: oh gee, was I? I think not. What the rest of you anon clowns are suggesting regarding legal this and that suggests you’ve been watching too much TV of the A Current Affair standard. Scotty, you know the parties involved and to suggest they’d risk everything and breach restraint covenants and do it by way of a press release to an industry forum? Nonsense.

We should be glad to have these guys back on board and selling Australia and driving quality businesses. Instead you lambast them with legal tripe and ludicrous suggestions. We need people to light-up the industry and get us out of this sleepy state. Ken Hart and Greg Zammitt coming back to the small group adventure industry should have people standing up and paying attention as to why. They don’t show up to fail. They don’t show up because they’ve got nothing better to do. They show up for opportunity.

Creg Gole
25 May 12
10:10 pm


oh Creg. Of course you love Greg and Ken. They employed you and tolerated your totally mediocre performance in heading up Oz Experience and running this brand into the ground. On the vice versa, of course you hate TUI they rissoled you didn’t they? Ignoring your obvious dislike for TUI, if you think what Greg and Ken are doing with Wayoutback is ethical, who’s the clown? This sort of unethical behaviour is precisely what stinks in the Tourism Industry.

Anon
26 May 12
10:46 am


See you round like a rissole Greg Cole! You are deluded! They are one of the main reasons for the stupid levels of commission in the last ten years. Is it really a good idea to have them back?

Greg Cole
26 May 12
12:35 pm


So Anon, according to you they’re breaking some law we’ve never heard of, and they almost single handedly forced commissions so far up the flagpole we can’t get them down? Oh, and their working life is an “idea” we can all toss around this forum. And someone else thinks its immoral.

If you anons were or are in competition to Ken and Greg it easy to understand why they do so well.

Paul Fanning
26 May 12
2:59 pm


@GregCole, Appears the Anons think they know more about your past life than you do, shame they dont know how to spell their own names though!

@Anon12, crazy commissions were around long before K&G, just that being the astute businessman they are, they utilised the system to its fullest to their advantage, cannot blame them for that it’s called business.

Personal opinion aside (I openly admit to not being a big fan), there is no doubt that K&G’s business and marketing acumen deserves acknowledgement and respect. I suspect that if it was anyone else in Don’s shoes, they would be very appreciative of any advice and assistance the pair could provide. I think it’s called sour grapes when you’re not the one in those shoes!

In reviewing GregZ’s ‘retirement tribute’ posted on this forum back in August, a few posters hit the nail on the head – ‘Ken will find retirement hard’. I suspect the lure of returning to the warmer climate of Darwin, enjoying the magical sunsets overlooking Fannie Bay, the upcoming Darwin Cup race carnival and keeping his finger on the pulse of another developing tourism business whilst he eases into retirement has been a few key reasons for this decison.

I do just hope that Don does manage to keep a hold of the reigns, keeps true to his original ethos and that this does not end up being just a case of Deja Vu further down the track.

anon
26 May 12
4:19 pm


The merger of Ken, Greg and Don will certainly test out PRODUCT loyalty. Remember product – when tourists bought product and unique Australian experiences and not companies that offer the cheapest nett rates (that was for you Matt). Will the Inbound & Local Agents stay loyal to ATA and Thommo who is a nice bloke and funny. Or will they jump ship and hop back on the Greg and Ken train? It appears that Don has bought Greg’s rollerdex which is the same as Thommo’s. Interesting times and I feel a war brewing. What does Paul Fanning do for a living btw? I’ve never heard of him!

anon
26 May 12
4:24 pm


Does anyone remeber ABTOA? Don has tried this before and failed miserably in much better economic times.

Ken Pannan
26 May 12
4:51 pm


Well done Ken and Greg,
Ken your decision to jump back on the familiar horse was a much better choice than buying Bush Village in Airlie Beach. Thanks for your interest and several visits anyway, your openness and future business thoughts were well received.

Ignore the sour grapes and do what you do well. Don has secured two of the best.

Darwin has a brighter future than Airlie anyway, certaintly in the short term, and a more pro-active state government that actually wants business to survive.

Oh, by the way, I have sold Bush Village after 18 very good years and hand the reins over end of June.

Anon
26 May 12
5:46 pm


Anon @15 well said. Exactly my thoughts!
Thommo, your thoughts at being shafted royally?

Observer
27 May 12
1:48 pm


Paul Fanning is one of the longest running and more respected tour operators from Kakadu and the top end and is probably the most qualified out of all the contributers on this forum.

anon
28 May 12
12:38 am


tour operator or tour guide????

Scotty
28 May 12
9:27 am


@Greg- I think I’m allowed to post both the fact that rumours hinting at just such an outcome were voiced to me, an FNQ hostel operator and distant from top-end machinations because it is enlightening when contemplating this press release, and the fact that, like the sale of PPans in the recent past, it seems that even large companies can’t seem to lockdown exclusion clauses in their sales contracts.

I would have thought that such an aim would have been paramount in the eyes of the vendors, wouldn’t you, Greg C? I’m doing nothing more than expressing surprise at this; I’m not saying it’s good or bad (personally, I am not thoroughly across what it might mean for our industry- was the creation of Tribal a good or bad thing? Ponder this, I will!)

@Ken Pannan: congratulations on your sale!

@Anons (some of you, anyhow) Paul has just a TAD of experience up in them thar parts, so, don’t doubt his credibility.The comment about being a tour guide though: c’mon, spill yer guts!

Greg Cole
28 May 12
12:25 pm


Yes, I hear you, Scotty. Most exclusion clauses I’ve dealt with require 100% buy-in by the excluded party and come at a huge cost or the insert of the gardening leave scenario for a year or so. In my experience with these matters I’ve never seen a tourism industry related trade restraint go on for much longer than 6-months. I’ve seen finance industry gardening leave go for 1 + years. It all comes down to what companies are prepared to pay for non-participation. I think there’s an assumption that TUI are some cash-rich giant; giant – yes, cash-rich they’re not, and a scan of annual and interim reports online tells you this. They haven’t been in the black for many years and a transaction of the Adventure Tours size is simply loose change and probably of little interest to anyone in the UK. Too small. No impact on share price.

So its a matter of scale. I probably should take the anon comments posted here as simply not understanding that TUI probably don’t care. That they probably signed away the rights to Messrs Hart and Zammitt years ago. Alas, the anon comments here are far from concerned about facts or common sense or opportunity.

Paul F
28 May 12
2:47 pm


@observer, you have overstated it a bit, but thanks anyway, ps where do I send the cheque! ditto to you @scotty.

@anons, I did submit an earlier response but the words I used to describe myself mustn’t have fitted in with the BTN guidelines as it is still marked ‘waiting moderation’. note @BTN you can scratch that one if you like.

rather than loading up this thread or BTN’s server with my ten page profile, all my future posts will include a link.

Alex Harmon
28 May 12
2:58 pm


Hi Paul,

The description you used to describe yourself was rather negative and came from an unrecognisable IP address, so we chose not to publish it. After a spate of insults from people using other people’s names, I am hesitant to approve anything that is derogatory, especially when it looks suspicious! Sorry about this.

Thanks for sending through the link about yourself!

-BTN

Scotty
28 May 12
4:01 pm


@Greg C, fair enough. I still reckon TD and GH would feel plenty aggrieved, though….

This is a public forum but it is rare for non-industry folks to comment (the pole dancing thread being a bit of an anomaly…), so, I always tend to believe that the anons and other inventive names have a serious interest/role in tourism, somewhere out there in the real world.

As the owner of Scotty`s, I`m small fry in comparison to the massive players out there, but, like Ken Pannan from Bush Village, Helen from Big Hostel, Tony M from Port Campbell and blokes like Paul F, this forum allows me to comment on what is happening in our backpacking industry, good and bad, and, most importantly, can be used by our industry representatives as a bit of a bellweather on operators/agents/tourism employee`s views and attitudes to projected advertising campaigns and initiatives. This is very important, in my opinion.

So, Paul, comment away on the threads you feel like responding to. That`s part of what this forum is all about, after all.

Bring it on!
28 May 12
4:04 pm


@ Greg Cole do you not recall the last 20 years? I’m really looking forward to this opportunity you have mentioned twice now. The opportunity to have our industry cheapened by 2 people who built a company with the aim to sell it.

We all know how great K&G are in their respective fields but how quickly we forget how they go about business.

No I don’t think TUI care as you say but I act ethically in my job and what is going on here is unethical. Non-compete clauses are worth nothing in OZ without garden rates as you have hinted at but does that mean it’s OK to sign one with intention of breaking it?

Greg Cole
28 May 12
7:19 pm


@Bring it on, well, you can’t take a business to the grave with you. And who wouldn’t – after years of slog and stress – knock back a big fat cheque as a reward for all your sweat. And to be honest, I’m a little over looking back over the last 20-years and listening to historical rants by so called experts who are simply intent on trashing two very good businessmen. My idea of an expert and someone worth listening to are forward looking pro-active types.

I was involved with ATA in one shape or another from 1995 until 2010. Throughout that time two things were outstanding: 1/ they were always easy to deal with, and 2/ they were always open to opportunities and risk. I could go on about the thousands they employed and the unseen contributions they made to the industry. And yes, mistakes – often big ones – happened and are of course part of the landscape.

These guys did something worth reading about and are now doing something else that may end up the same. To suggest its unethical without any sort of clarification is simply absurd. To paint yourself as the Prince of ethics without revealing your business carries no weight at all.

Paul Fanning
29 May 12
12:15 am


@GregC, Not sure if you are in part referring to me in your last post- ‘historical rants by so called experts’, if so just a couple of points;

1) at no stage have I ever branded or considered myself an expert,
2) someone asked who I was, so I submitted a profile link. No point telling just half the story and it is optional to read.
3) my previous posts offered nothing more than support and best wishes for Don and his decision and acknowledged K&G’s achievements.

Greg Cole
29 May 12
10:46 am


Not you, Paul. Its a general comment that refers to the theme of named and anonymous posts on BTN. Rant meaning taking a position of being hard done by due to the actions of others without actually saying why. Saying people are unethical without it seems any clue to what the word actually means other than its someone who’s done better than you in the same field. An old and well used and amusing strategy.

Anonanon
29 May 12
11:12 am


Good onya Paul Fanning for sticking it up the doubter with your mini blog! Definitely an asset to the industry in the NT and although you haven’t made the huge money that others did, you have probably worked equally hard without the fanfare!

Maybe you should sell yourself to Don Wait!

The word in Kakadu is that he hasn’t got any money and Greg and Ken are just getting a percentage on bookings. A bit like a travel agent then?!

I highly doubt whether they have been given a Kings ransom to divulge all the agents that they know in Europe when a quick trip to ATE or Wystic will do the same job.

Don Wait is only linking with them as a last resort to steady the ship as he is lucky to take 3 tours per week in the centre and most of them are charters. There is no way that he would gladly let his former rivals a be involved in his beloved company if he didn’t have money worries.

I wouldn’t fear this at all if I had my own company!

Another Anon
29 May 12
3:06 pm


I agree with Anonanon!! Don has made it very clear over the years he is not interested in the Backpacker market and now he has to come back and grovel to all the agents and expect to get service. Somehow I don’t think dropping Ken Harts and Greg Zammits names as his besties will be enough.

Surprised
29 May 12
4:22 pm


@Greg Cole I’m guessing by your comments, GZ must have given you one hell of a golden handshake back then….

Damian Zammit
29 May 12
6:32 pm


Don I still remember your first product presentation to me some 10-12 years ago. You showed us all photos of your dog that had just been injured – headed off to the vet. It was immediately obvious you were a great bloke with a big heart. All the best to you mate!

Anon
29 May 12
9:34 pm


How does that mean he will be able to work with your brother Damien Zammit?

'Backpacker' Agent
30 May 12
10:11 am


Another Anon, could not disagree with you more. Don has always supported us with product trainings, marketing collateral, competitive commissions, famils etc etc. Has never given any indication to us that he is not interested in the backpacker market, so not sure where you are coming from?

As an agent, I have little or no interest in the personalities behind the scenes. All that matters to me is providing a quality product to our clients, and if Wayoutback can do that in the Top End, I will be more than happy to support them, irrelevant of who is involved in the organization.

Greg Cole
30 May 12
10:18 am


@Surprised, yes, massive payout – huge. And thanks to it since 2010 I, and other select ATA retirees, have been living in an walled compound on the island of St Barts. A bit like Microsoft retirees but a little less nerdy. We’ve nothing to do but tweet and post comments and check our shares in Apple (part of the severance package). Boredom has set in so we’ve resorted to posting as Anon this and Anon that to keep the ball rolling along. Occasionally we take bus rides to remind ourselves of where we came from. And just for fun we have themed dorm rooms and a shared kitchen in the mansion – or mansions.

@surprised, you may ask – “are you joking?” And I might respond – “well you started it.”

Tim Grigg
30 May 12
11:19 am


Despite what you think of Wayoutback’s plan and how it may affect you. This is a huge undertaking and you have to respect anyone willing to give a crack.

The Anon’s out there are probably bottom feeders who despite their criticism benefit from the hard work and huge risks taken by a few in the industry who have the balls to give a go.

If you are going to personally attack Don and make claims about his financial position and his business, grow some balls and say it to his face by revealing yourself.

You have my respect Don, good luck with it – (you crazy f@cker)

Anonanon
30 May 12
11:27 am


Is “Backpacker Agent” Budget Oz Travel in Manly?

Don Waits best friend who has been booking at 2004 prices all these years?!

Judgemental
30 May 12
11:39 am


Jealousies & tribal spats are not what these forums are about. Who cares who got what, did what, with whom & when. Its all about providing a service to visitors to our fabulous country and doing it well – a reputation we all hold near & dear – Agreed !!

I would strongly consider that no-one is going to venture into a field without having all the “i’s” dotted & “t’s” crossed. People come & people go and there is always going to be opinion and feeling ( sometimes ill) as to where people move, particularly if it is in the same industry – allies one minute, foe the next. It will always be. Too much of today’s business is controlled by “big brother” wanting to wield a big stick, monopolies wanting to control the plebs. We live in a democratic ( remember that) world, with believe it or not, where Freedom of Speech and opportunity does still exist.

Has anyone stopped to consider that sectors of the industry have been calling for an expansion of this nature??? Remember the old expression Que sera sera – what will be will be. The industry will self govern, it always has and will continue to do so. Good on ya Wayoutback, a ballsy decision in a tough economic climate – what will be will be. To those not so convinced or complimentary – there is another old saying – “people in glass houses ____ “. If it results in a an increase of service standard everyone will be the winner.

Bring it on!
30 May 12
11:45 am


@ Tim Grigg I would never have a crack at Don’s business or anyone who is as honest as him for what that’s worth. Tim we “bottom feeders” trying to feed our families require industry leaders with integrity. People who actually improve our industry. Leaders we can respect because of shared values and sustainable practices. Can you put your hand on your heart and claim to be one of them? Can Ken? Can Greg? None of you have ever lied for personal gain?

“Bottom feeders” like myself are cynical about K&G getting involved because we cop it at ground level when you blokes pull out all the stops to gain sales or proffered listings without the systems to back it up. I wish Don all the best but I would be wary of who he beds with.

Alan Collingwood
30 May 12
12:55 pm


I find it amazing that it appears that SO many people have SO much time on their hands to make SO many comments on one particular topic.

Two years into retirement, although I still keep an interest on what is happening, all I can say is ‘what a great life it is outside the backpacker industry!’

'Backpacker' Agent
30 May 12
12:55 pm


Anonanon, I am no more ‘mates’ with Don than the other good people within our industry, including many of Wayoutback’s competitors. Clearly you have a beef with Don, and as you know who and where he is (a luxury he doesn’t have), why don’t you adopt a professional approach and pick up the phone and speak with him directly about your concerns?

And FYI, I am not based on the East Coast.

Greg Cole
30 May 12
4:10 pm


Welcome back Alan. I hope retirement is treating you well.

Whether we like it or not, Alan, forums and online commentary are part of the landscape today. What we don’t have time for are newspapers and newsletters. Here – at BTN – we can nudge, punch, trip, applaud, promote, push agendas, and hear a lot of different points of view. And for the most part, I’d say 99%, its all pretty harmless.

We can also type superfast.

Tim Grigg
30 May 12
5:28 pm


@Bring it on! My point is that we wouldn’t have an industry without people who were prepared to put them selves out there and take some risks, and I applaud that and wished Don good luck.

What I don’t applaud, actually I find it quite cowardly, is people who hide behind an anonymous name and hurl abuse. I don’t see how that’s at all constructive.

David Cheeks Way
30 May 12
7:03 pm


Tim well said, so also for Judgmental ..crikey cant believe the pettiness on such a topic, no matter which way on the fence you fall and please leave the personal stuff aside crikey more low blows unreal ..

The fact that even if it isn’t your business or your a competitor the fact that people will talking up NT and Kakadu has to be a positive never a negative, people in the face of people many many miles away talking up a destination always means all will benefit in some way or another ..hats off fellas hats off ..wishing them so much luck and all in a region that needs as much focus as we can give it ..GODSOWN as they say ..

Coley please move your super yacht, as its about to get a ticket hahaa..sorry funniest thing I have read in ages ..

GO the NT ..they’re is no other place like it in the world. Surely that’s the message
hooroo,
Cheeks

Don Wait
30 May 12
9:29 pm


To all the comments of encouragement and support, I thank you.

I truly love our industry for the friendships and business relationships I am privileged to have made. I look forward to making many more in the years to come.

To those few anonymous “experts” enlightening the world with your wisdom, I have enjoyed the banter. Best not let the truth get in the way of a good story!
It may come as a surprise to some of you that none of us, Ken, Greg or myself came down in the last shower!
We know exactly what we are doing and why, I understand competitors will no doubt be uncomfortable, but hey, that’s the game!

From a Northern Territory perspective the re-entry of Ken and Greg’s efforts into the industry is a huge and timely boost.

These two gentlemen have contributed greatly to putting the Territory and all it offers well and truly on the International tourist map.

I personally have spent considerable amounts promoting Wayoutback and consequently Central Australia and the Northern Territory.

Sadly there are very few NT operators who can say the same, I have always believed and will continue to practice putting back into an industry that has given me so much.

This is a common value shared between Ken, Greg and myself, those of you who actually know us, know this to be true.

This is a tough market and what an achievement it would be if instead of in house mud slinging, a strong collective voice was heard!

Crying in our beer will not rejuvenate this industry. Action, commitment, determination and having a crack will.

I’ve got work to do!

Cheers,
Don

anon
31 May 12
8:59 am


I notice Scotty hasn’t posted anything since the 28th, maybe someone should pop down to his hostel and check he’s ok?

Scotty
31 May 12
11:59 am


Oh, I`m here, Anon, fear not!

I have made my contribution on this subject (I was first to post, after all…) and am finding the resultant banter illuminating.

Greg Cole and I gave up the slanging matches some time ago and I`ve never had a cross word with Ken, Greg Z or Don, nor have I ever been to Uluru or Kakadu as yet to partake of a tour, so, I`m not looking to place a limpet mine on anyone’s yacht anytime soon.

As has been noted on here, business is business. All`s fair in love and war. Law of the jungle: only the strongest survive.

The fact mafioso`s whisper the first aphorism just before they ‘whack’ a close friend or nephew who has outlived their usefulness doesn`t soothe my lingering doubt about our industry`s long-term future.

One thing I have sen in all this is: history repeats and God is on the side of the big battalions (cliches are back in vogue, folks) and the fact that my word is my bond means I`ll never amount to much of a big-businessman, I s`pose.

“There, but for the grace of God, go I” might be a good one, too……

Dave
31 May 12
12:10 pm


Well said Don.

Just like to wish you all the best with all your new tours, its refreshing to see new product as opposed to losing product over the last 3 years in these tough economic times.

Our industry as we know it is so small for such a huge country, it doesn’t take rocket science to work out who these anonymous people are!! just remember we’re all doing it tough at the moment and therefore should all stick together not bag each other out, encouragement goes a long way

I’m sure Don will have all the success he deserves as he is well liked, his passion and enthusiasm towards what he believes in is infectious.

Good luck Don, you sure have the right people on board. Oh, can I have an educational? Never been to Kakadu )

Steve
31 May 12
12:26 pm


I don’t think it is a case of whether or not Don is a nice Bloke. It is more about the fact that Greg and Ken have taken all the applause in retirement from the industry and then come out in competition against their former selves.

That is what is not ethical. Not Don Wait. He is allegedly ethical to the point where his products are above the budget/backpacker market, so why would he want to lower himself back into it?

And why would he team up with two people who made code sharing the most common discussion apart from commission levels in the whole industry.

Good debate though.

Lia Black
31 May 12
12:26 pm


I am a proud employee of Wayoutback. I came to work with Don nearly six years ago.
I love working for Wayoutback.

There have been times that tour companies in Central Australia have done ground breaking things directly in competition with us. Don may have had some grumbles, but I don’t remember them. What I do remember is him saying, “Good for them”.

It is something I have always admired about him. Whenever the stakes are raised we have to work harder and improve our product. Don sees others doing well and says, “Good for them”. No wonder I’m proud.

I look forward to the new adventure. I look forward to giving guests an amazing experience throughout the NT and I look forward to working with or alongside all of you in some way, even Anonymous.

Paul F
31 May 12
2:56 pm


Yeah, get back to work Don and stop wasting time answering the knockers here! We’re all anxiously waiting for the brochure and website for more details so get cracking! HaHa, just kidding, I’m sure your hard at it. Good luck.

Greg Cole
31 May 12
8:23 pm


Now the conversation has moved to quality, largely thanks to Don. And that’s the conversation we should all be having.

Tui Eruera
1 Jun 12
11:54 am


I congratulate Don for seeing the foresight to bring a suite of youth products to the top end. After sifting through the product range in the NT I have also noted the lack of product selection for our market. Well Done and wish Wayoutback all the best, and also having the confidence to keep investing in the youth market.

Paul
19 Jun 12
8:40 pm


Sorry Don, having just downloaded and perused the brochure, I am a little dissapointed. It seems my anxiety has proved to be reality – that your product offering is simply nothing more than an ‘adventure tours rebirth’, provides nothing much in the way of unique or new itineraries, strays from your original ‘ethos’ and we now just have another Top End operator.

The ‘classic’ 4WD 3 day kakadu/litchfield is pretty much stock standard, a safe bet I guess. (therefore, not authentic)

Ok, introducing a mini bus orientated tour is new, but for the last fifteen years agents have been saying they cannot (will not) sell any kakadu tour that does not include a 4wd or Jim Jim and Twin falls. As a result, these tours dissappeared (even ATA reverted back to 4wd after starting with buses’).

Most of the clients patronising these tours then rejected the higher priced tours and became the self drive vanpackers. I guess your plan is to try and draw back some of those more budget orientated clients, trouble is that market has also dramatically decreased (Wicked have over 40 vehicles sitting idle in Darwin depot and other hire operators similar).

Also concerned (considering your promotion of ROC accreditation), with the popular gimmick of naming the tours.

Two points in particular -

‘Buffalo Dreaming’, these animals were only introduced some 180 years ago, whilst some local clans have ‘adopted’ them as a result of their fathers/grandfathers association with hunting them, there is no buffalo dreaming.

‘Cicada Dreaming’ – true the Cicada is part of the Nitmiluk region, your tour that visits the area does not include any specific cultural content (boat cruise and canoeing optional).

The use of such names and the front page buyline – “Authentic ……. with Aboriginal culture and interaction for adventure travellers” tends to imply that there will be significant cultural content when in fact, the tours will be no different to any others where the guides simply provide their interpretation.

Oh, my last little gripe, the fact that after twenty years, group sizes of 21-24 are still considered as small groups – BULLSHIT!

I suspect I will cop a roasting for this one, but hey, that’s the way I see it. I guess I was expecting something more.

Dave
20 Jun 12
8:54 am


Well said Paul. Couldn’t agree more. Adventure Tours by any other name is still Adventure Tours!

Anon
5 Jul 12
9:54 am


after 56 comments it all went quiet………..

FYI Wayoutback, despite the fanfare on BTN, is yet to put out one of their revolutionary tours in the Top End or in Central Australia, due to low numbers! First tour was meant to be 22nd June. First relocation bus to Darwin from Alice Springs broke down. Must be quality equipment!

How the mighty have fallen……..

(that should get a response!)

anonamouse
5 Jul 12
10:51 am


If Greg is driving business from the UK won’t it take a while to get numbers up?

Anon
5 Jul 12
11:02 am


possibly

Paul
8 Jul 12
10:55 am


No reason why their ‘authentic’ 3 day Kakadu & Litchfield 4wd tour could not be running, agent told me last week all other similar tours are booked out for two weeks and they have nothing to sell!

Dave
8 Jul 12
7:49 pm


They will code share Paul both in the top end and red centre eventually! Wayoutback are using the same blueprint as the old ATA pre TUI. Isn’t the next step huge commissions and haven’t we all had enough of that debate. It is all that is wrong in the tourism industry.

Well done for trying something different Greg and Ken.

Stumpy
3 Aug 12
11:45 am


Good luck with the new venture, it takes balls to invest in something new in our current climate. All the best.

Maz
29 Aug 12
12:39 pm


Greg Cole: ‘Ken Hart and Greg Zammitt coming back to the small group adventure industry should have people standing up and paying attention as to why. They don’t show up to fail. They don’t show up because they’ve got nothing better to do. They show up for opportunity.’ – Well said Greg, that’s the right state of mind to work to a better future in tourism for all of us.

TT
26 Feb 13
11:32 am


Just heard Wayoutback has cancelled it’s new Tassie schedule for the rest of the season due to low numbers…

frenchy
27 Feb 13
10:33 am


We have a well established 4wd backpacker market in Kakadu.The reintroduction of coaster buses running 3 day Kakadu trips has never been successful .I would hate to own a coaster that runs regularly down the gumlom or maguk roads, quite dangerous really. Come on guys if u are going to come and play in Kakadu pls have products that are not relying on mass numbers in dangerous vehicles to do the job.

anon
27 Feb 13
11:22 am


Too many cooks spoil the broth Frenchy! Wayoutback are a great example. There is no way that any of the individuals involved can make a single one direction, and be precise in that direction. Big Don owns and loves small group specialised touring and set the company up, Greg and Ken, who don’t get on particularly well, go for mass numbers and huge loadings. Then there is negative Phil as he is known in the industry who is OH+S over-the-top who will always argue that a piano might fall out of the sky prohibiting anything new and innovative.

The alliance wont last that much longer. Expect changes!

Jeff Hausler
27 Feb 13
11:46 am


If Tiger fly Alice to Darwin – there will be enough pie for everyone –Do Wayoutback know this is coming?

anon
27 Feb 13
12:11 pm


No Jeff Hausler! They are no more visionaries than you! ( or your company Emu Run!)

Paul
27 Feb 13
12:32 pm


Really? @Frenchy. As I recall it was coaster based companies that really kicked off the backpacker market in Darwin (including Kakadu) many years ago! Names such as, the original Kakadu Plus, Billy Can and KAT’s 2 day coaster bus tour that use to do both Gunlom & Maguk that really drew Kakadu to the attention of backpackers. The 4wd tours grew stronger from this as part of companies defining their ‘difference’. Whilst not a big fan either, At least now they have a CHOICE.

You know as well as I do, that a coaster will go ALMOST anywhere (use to take our KAT one into Moline!). As for safety, well that is entirely down to the Driver and Vehicle maintenance. Note: haven’t seen any reports of crashed/rolled coasters in Kakadu during the last 15 years, but numerous incidents involving troopies and modified 4wd’s!

Greg Cole
27 Feb 13
2:35 pm


Well said Paul: In the absence of an economically viable 4WD bus that seats more than 17 the Coaster is the only alternative. Toyota know how to make minibuses hence the global success of the Coaster. Any bus operator who does their sums properly will know the Coaster is the workhorse you need to meet demand on short trips, make enough money to reinvest, and maintain your bus. They tick the boxes.

And Frenchy, a 21 seater is hardly a catalyst for “mass tourism” as you say.

In many years of operating companies that run buses I’ve never come across safety issues with Coasters, unless of course the tyres are bald, the driver untrained, and maintenance neglected, and as Paul says, that all comes down to us humans.

anon
27 Feb 13
4:23 pm


@Greg Cole and Paul, come on guys easy up, poor Frenchy never was the sharpest tool in the box

Paul
27 Feb 13
5:14 pm


Sorry Anon72, cannot agree with you on that as I know him to be one of the most astute and savvy operators around. I mean, he now holds the mantle as being the longest running OWNER OPERATED backpacker orientated operator servicing Kakadu. You don’t last that long in this industry if you don’t have some smarts!

Oh, I forgot to mention the legendary Ivan’s tours in my reminiscing of the ‘good old days’!

Morris Davis
27 Feb 13
5:40 pm


@anon, You’re either Rob Cowan or Josephine George, group a pair of balls and put a name to your comments sunshine or hold your tongue like a good little boy.

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